italian（alexander）

正文翻译原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：兰陵笑笑生 转载请注明出处How useful was the UK in WW2?英国在第二次世界大战中有什么作用吗？

评论翻译原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：兰陵笑笑生 转载请注明出处Harold Piskiel,Competitive shooter and instructor. Student of History, and the US ConstitutionThe premise of this question is simply ridiculous.Please do not read any of this as minimizing the Soviet contribution and sacrifice, which I understand in great detail (my Father was in the USSR during the war.) but since other posters are stretching this argument far to one side, I will try to balance it a little.Each of the three major Allies (British Empire, USA, USSR) fought as hard as they could, with every resource they had, and were totally committed to the war.The British Empire stood alone for 20 months after the fall of France, while the USSR was an ally of Germany and divided Poland with them.During that time:- The RAF destroyed 30% of the fighting strength of the Luftwaffe, which was not fully rebuilt and entered the Soviet campaign greatly diminished.- Empire forces engaged Germans in Africa, Greece, and tied up 300,000 German troops in Norway for the duration.- British forces destroyed the capital ship strength of the Kriegsmarine forcing them to rely on submarines.After the German attack on the USSR, and later entry of the US :The USSR released Zhukov and its Siberian army (36 divisions) to the relief of Moscow only after it learned that Japan was going after the US and not them.75% of German air power was dedicated to the air defense of Germany. This allowed The USSR to gain air superiority on its front, without which it would have looked very different.Until late 1943 when Soviet production caught up, the most common Soviet fighters over the front were Spitfires and Hurricanes from the UK (over 7,000 were given which alone exceeded Luftwaffe fighter strength in the theater). and Bell P39 Airacobras from the US. (4,800 were given ) The leading Soviet ace of the war flew a P39, and its co-axial 39mm cannon made it a potent ground attack fighter, and bomber killer. No WW2 tank could withstand a 39mm hit on the top. The IL-2 Sturmovik replaced it in that role, in 1944.The Air defense of Germany in 1943 / 44 / 45 consumed75% of german artillery production.90% of german artillery ammunition75% of concrete, structural steel , etc, etc, etc.The Allied (American British) air war diverted 1.5 million Wehrmacht troops to the air defense of Germany. 100 German divisions.In addition the Germans had tied up :- 40 first line divisions in France to guard against US / British invasion, in addition to the garrison of France (4 divisions, not first line)- 10 more in the low countries- 300,000 German Troops in Norway to guard against US / British invasion.In aggregate we are talking about the equivalent of about 170 divisions, and an entire air force who were not available for the Eastern Front, before the first allied soldier ever landed in Normandy.They were there because Britain and the US were in the war.By early 1943, a German / Italian army of 400,000 was destroyed in North Africa with 250,000 being taken prisoner in Tunisia by British and American forces. It was the largest surrender of German forces until 1944/45 including Stalingrad. It gets less attention because we did not subsequently kill them.Before Moscow, these forces might have enabled a German victory, after Moscow, they most likely would have enabled the Germans to hold a shorter line further west (perhaps on the dneiper or vistula).Most of the German armored forces (about 30 divisions) used (and destroyed) in the battle of the bulge had been diverted from the Russian front, weakening it before the Soviet operation Bagration then gutted the German eastern army.Almost all German Naval Activity was diverted to the west.The US alone had 12 million people in the armed forces (with 1/3 of its current population.Army Air Force 2.6 million, Operating 100,000 aircraft in all theaters.US Army (non air force) 5.6 millionNavy 3.3 million, and an additional 475,000 marines.Coast Guard 80,000 (most served in Europe).The battle of Normandy (June 1944 through liberation of Paris) destroyed 60 German Divisions.One reason for the disparate kill totals is that most German prisoners of the Soviets, (and to be fair Soviet prisoners of the Germans) did not survive their captivity (less than 5% of prisoners taken at Stalingrad survived).Millions (about 3) of German prisoners taken by the Allies were not listed as killed because they were not.Most Soviet weapon systems on the ground were Soviet design and production, but almost every shell, bullet, gallon of fuel, scrap of food etc. delivered to the front went on American Trucks (275,000 2/12 ton trucks alone given to the Soviets.Soviet soldiers marched on 8 million pairs of american fur lined boots.I apologize for the disordered flow of this post, but after reading the original post, I did not know where to even begin, so I chose the middle.I think some perspective is needed here.这个问题的前提简直是荒谬的。请不要将其中的任何内容都看做是将苏联的贡献和牺牲降到了最低，我非常详细地了解了这一点（我父亲在战争期间曾在苏联。） 但由于其他答复将这一论点讨论得有点远，我将努力平衡这一点。三大同盟国（大英帝国、美国、苏联）各尽所能，各取所需，全力投入了战争。

德国1943/44/45防空力量的消耗德国火炮产量的75％。德国大炮弹药的90％混凝土，结构钢等的75%等等等等英美联军的空战将150万德国国防军牵扯到德国的防空系统。100个德国师。此外，德国人还：-除法国驻军外，在法国的40个师被安排在前线，以防止美国/英国的入侵（还有4个师的后备）-10个师布置在低地国家-30万德国驻挪威部队，以防备美国/英国的入侵。总的来说，我们谈论的是大约170个师，以及在第一个盟军士兵登陆诺曼底之前，东部阵线德国缺失的整个空军。他们被牵制在那里是因为英国和美国在战争中。到1943年初，一支40万人的德国/意大利军队在北非被摧毁，25万人在突尼斯被英美军队俘虏。这是直到1944/45包括斯大林格勒在内的德国军队最大规模的投降。因为我们后来没有杀了他们，所以这次行动的吸引的注意力没那么多。在莫斯科之前，这些部队可能会使德国取得胜利，在莫斯科之后，他们很可能会使德国人在更西的地方（也许是在德尼珀或维斯特拉）保持一条较短的防线。在这次突击战中使用（摧毁）的大多数德国装甲部队（约30个师）是从俄罗斯前线转移到这来的，这削弱了它东部战线的力量，然后苏联的巴格拉季翁行动随后摧毁了德国东部军队。几乎所有的德国海军活动都被吸引到西方。仅美国就有1200万人在武装部队中服役（占当时人口的三分之一）。陆军航空兵260万，在所有战区拥有100,000架飞机。美国陆军（非空军）560万海军330万，另有475,000名海军陆战队。海岸警卫队80000（大多在欧洲服役）。诺曼底战役（1944年6月，巴黎解放）摧毁了60个德国师。造成英美和苏联不同杀伤总数的原因之一是，大多数苏联囚徒（公平地说是苏联俘虏的德国人）没有在囚禁中幸存下来（在斯大林格勒被俘的囚犯中只有不到5％幸存率）。被盟军俘虏的数百万（约3百万）德国囚犯没有被列入杀伤名单，因为他们没死。地面上的大多数苏联的武器系统都是苏联自己设计和生产的，但前线的几乎所有炮弹，子弹，燃料，食物残渣等，都是使用美国卡车（给苏联提供了27.5万辆2/12吨重的卡车）运输的。苏联士兵用了800万双美国皮靴行军。Thomas Bruce, Former Head of History at Menzieshill High SchoolFirst of all England is part of the UK which includes four national countries. As a Scotsman, I think its important to clarify that point.Anyway without Britain. Germany would have had a free hand in Europe to do as she pleased.Germany spent huge amounts of resources fighting the British in Africa and in the air war. These resources could have been used in Russia if Britain had been defeated earlier.Germany spent around 1/3 of her resources protecting herself from the British bombing campaign. By not surrendering Germany was forced to split her forces. This weakened her Eastern front significantly .The British provided the USA with the original scientific data that allowed for the development of the atomic bomb.The British Empire fought in all corners of the Globe. European and Pacific theatres.The British discovered the enigma codes. This allowed the allies to decipher the German war plans.The British Isles became the base from which the D-DAY landings took place.The British were the longest participants in the war. We sacrificed our people, our economy and our Empire to defeat the Nazi’s. Remember the Russians also invaded Poland.Britain gave resources to the Russians via the Arctic convoys.Britain fought the Germans in the northern part of Europe. Liberating vast areas of land from the Nazis in 1944.Britain was the catalyst that brought the allies together.Whilst I don’t discredit the contribution made by the allies especially the USSR. No other nation lifted a finger to assist Poland in 1939. Britain was the first. Not America. Not Russia. But Britain, followed by France. Without Britain who would have stood up to the Nazis?首先，英格兰是英国的一部分，英国包括四个国家。作为苏格兰人，我认为澄清这一点很重要。不管怎样，如果没有英国。德国本可以在欧洲自由发挥。1. 德国在非洲和空战中花费了大量资源与英军作战。如果英国早些时候被击败，这些资源本可以在俄罗斯使用。2. 德国花费了大约1/3的资源来保护自己免受英国的轰炸。由于英国不投降，德国被迫分裂了军队。这大大削弱了她的东方阵线。3. 英国向美国提供了允许发展原子弹的原始科学数据。4. 大英帝国在全球各个角落奋战。欧洲和太平洋战场。5. 英国人发现了密码。这使同盟国可以破译德国的战争计划。6. 不列颠群岛成为诺曼底登陆的基地。7. 英国人是这场战争中最长的参与者。我们牺牲了我们的人民，我们的经济和我们的帝国来击败纳粹分子。请记住，俄罗斯人还入侵了波兰。8. 英国通过北极运输队向俄罗斯人提供了资源。9. 英国在欧洲北部与德国人作战。1944年，从纳粹手中解放了大片土地。10 英国是使盟友聚集在一起的催化剂。虽然我不怀疑盟国特别是苏联的贡献。 但是在1939年，没有其他国家伸出援手帮助波兰。 英国是第一个这么做的。不是美国。 不是俄罗斯。 是英国，其次是法国。 没有英国，谁会反抗纳粹？Natalie HolemanWell, I can pretty much guarantee had England not resisted Germany in 1939, Germany would have won the war. Contrary to the opinion of many/most of my fellow Americans, we would not have won had our allies not all been there.England kept Germany busy in Europe prior to the invasion of Russia. England kept Germany busy in North Africa prior to the United States entering the war. England, India, Australia, New Zealand, and China kept Japan busy until the entry of the United States into the war.England provided a staging area for American operations against Germany. The English fleet maintained control of the English channel even against the German U-boats allowing the invasion of Germany to be possible.The OSS was actually patterned off an agency of the English war effort. Sorry, I do not remember the name.Most of our commando tactics were developed by the English first.Had England not entered the war in 1939, that would have allowed Germany to concentrate more effort in Russia in June 1941. That may have been enough for Russia to have fallen.Had England not have resisted in North Africa, Germany would have had all the petroleum they required. This would have greatly enhanced their industrial potential, and in 1941, they had much more industrial output than the US. It would have helped in almost all wartime industries.Had England and its colonial areas not resisted Japan, possibly China would have fallen. At the very least the Japanese would have had many more troops available for reinforcing the islands under their control in the Pacific. This would have allowed even better fortifications as well as more personnel to resist our island hopping invasion forces.Had England chosen to remain neutral through out the war, it is all but guaranteed, Russia would have fallen and the United States would have been unable to win the war in Europe, I am not sure we could have even started fighting the war in Europe. Quite probably our only way to fight Europe would have been crossing into the Eastern part of the Soviet unx and fighting south toward China to help it while fighting westward across Siberia to invade Germany through Ural and Carpathian Mountains.Was England useful? It was absolutely critical.这么说吧，我可以保证，如果英国在1939年没有抵抗德国，德国会赢得这场战争。与我的许多/大多数美国同胞的观点相反，如果我们的盟友不都在那里，我们就不会赢。在入侵俄罗斯之前，英国让德国在欧洲忙得不可开交。 在美国进入战争之前，英国让德国在北非忙得不可开交。英国、印度、澳大利亚、新西兰和中国一直让日本直到美国进入战争之前都抽不出身来。英国为美国对德国的军事行动提供了一个舞台。 英国舰队保持对英国海峡的控制，甚至对抗德国U型艇，使得入侵德国成为可能。OSS实际上是模仿英国战争的一个机构建立起来的。对不起，名字我忘了。我们的大部分突击队战术都是由英国人先制定的。如果英国没有在1939年进入战争，这将允许德国在1941年6月在俄罗斯集中更多的兵力。 这对俄罗斯来说可能已经足以使其倒下了。如果英国在北非没有抵抗，德国就会拥有他们所需要的所有石油。 这将大大提高他们的工业潜力，1941年，他们的工业产出比美国多得多。这对几乎所有战时工业都有好处。如果英国及其殖民地地区不抵制日本，中国可能会被击败（？）。 至少日本会有更多的军队来加强他们控制的太平洋岛屿。这将允许他们建立更好的防御工事，以及拥有更多的人员来抵抗我们的岛屿蛙跳入侵部队。如果英国选择在战争中保持中立，那么可以保证的是俄罗斯会倒下，美国会无法赢得欧洲的战争，我不确定我们甚至是否可以开始在欧洲开战。我们与欧洲作战的唯一途径可能是穿越苏联东部，向南向中国作战，以帮助中国，同时向西穿越西伯利亚作战，以通过乌拉尔和喀尔巴阡山脉入侵德国。英国有起作用吗？作用绝对是关键的。Hugo Davenport, Engineer and historianClaire Jordan has the truth of it. There was a quite huge transfer of technology from the UK to the US during WWII. This includes not only sonar and radar, but the nuclear technology which enabled the Manhattan Project to develop working atomic bombs (some of which, I should say, came from scientists who’d fled the nazis and ended up in Britain). Let’s face it, the first patent for an atomic bomb was filed in England.Apart from that, the UK was not backward in engaging Axis forces prior to the entry of the USA into the war. British commando raids in the early 1940’s ensured that Hitler had to keep hundreds of thousands of troops in Norway for the duration of the war; British troops defeated Rommel in North Africa, and British bombers had started to mount strategic bomber raids long before the US 8th Air Force joined the fight in 1943.By the way, if you’re ever in England, remember to visit the US Air Force cemetery at Madingley, Cambridgeshire. It is stunningly beautiful and reminds Brits and, I hope, Americans, how many Americans died in raids from the unsinkable aircraft carrier of the British Isles. I have never been able to see it without tearing up.克莱尔·乔丹知道真相。二战期间，英国向美国进行了相当大规模的技术转让。其中不仅包括声纳和雷达，还包括使曼哈顿计划能够研制出工作原子弹的核技术（我应该说，是其中一些来自逃离纳粹并最终来到英国的科学家）。让我们面现实，第一个原子弹专利是在英国提出的。除此之外，在美国进入战争之前，英国在打击轴心国部队方面并不落后。20世纪40年代初期英国突击队的突袭确保希特勒在战争期间必须在挪威驻扎数十万军队；英国军队在北非击败了隆美尔，英国轰炸机早在美国第8空军1943年加入战斗之前就开始发动战略轰炸机袭击。顺便说一句，如果你去过英国，记得去拜访剑桥郡马丁利的美国空军公墓。它非常美丽，让英国人，我希望也有美国人想起有多少美国人在不列颠群岛永不沉没海战的航空母舰的突袭中牺牲。没有一次1参观不让我痛彻心扉。Nigel Foster, Finishing the Netherspace sci-fi trilogy at Self-EmploymentWe helped the US make the atomic bomb. And didn’t make too much of a fuss when the US then reneged on an agreement and refused to share nuclear secrets. We beat Japan in Malaya, Burma, Indonesia and French Indo China. Beat Germany in North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. We kept the Russians supplied with Arctic convoys.We paid for all supplies and equipment provided by the US and so made many Americans rich.The Italian campaign.

Virgil Alexander, former Researcher, Author, EducatorBritain was the hero of the pre-American entry into the war. Of all the countries on Germany’s press across Europe, Britain remained the only engaged army. Their military numbers and grit, wealth, determination, and manufacturing strength made them a tremendous foe for the Nazis. England put together and supplied most of the partisan forces working in their various homelands, and developed an excellent intelligence network, all before America engaged.On D-day Britain sent forces to two beaches and landed an airborne division behind German lines. They also supported the Canadian divisions who came ashore in Holland. Granted, that the Americans landed more soldiers and their two beaches and two divisions of airborne, but Britain carried it’s share of weight. And the British and Canadians were valiant and relentless through the end of the war.Britain had been in constant aerial and sea war for three years before the US became heavily involved; had they lost during that time, it may very well have changed the outcome of the war. They were holding down Fort Apache long before the Yank cavalry came riding to their assistance. Yes the war would have been lost without the Americans, but it also would have been lost without the Brits.英国是美国参战前的英雄。在德国进攻的欧洲所有国家中，英国军队仍然是唯一仍在保持交战的军队。 他们的军队数量和勇气、财富、决心和制造力使他们成为纳粹的巨大敌人。在美国参与之前，英国汇集并提供了在其各个国家工作的大部分游击队力量，并建立了一个出色的情报网络。在诺曼底登陆日，英国派遣部队到两个海滩，并在德国线后面降落了一个空降师。 他们还支援了在荷兰上岸的加拿大分部。当然，美国人降落了更多的士兵，在两个海滩和两个空降师，但英国做出了符合自身能力的工作。英国人和加拿大人勇往直前直到战争结束。在美国卷入战争之前，英国一直处于持续与德国的空中和海上战争的三年中； 如果他们在那段时间输了，这很可能会改变战争的结果。在扬基人的骑兵前来协助之前很久，他们按住了德国。 是的，如果没有美国人，战争就会失败，但是没有英国人，战争也会失败。